tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post113994819265731725..comments2024-01-05T03:41:19.602-05:00Comments on Nats Triple Play: The Business of BaseballNatehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03967066946860270813noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140815318218443482006-02-24T16:08:00.000-05:002006-02-24T16:08:00.000-05:00Yuda, you can take it any way you want. I don't h...Yuda, you can take it any way you want. I don't have to "win" some arguement with someone on the Internet to feel good about myself. If it makes you feel like a winner, you're distinctly welcome to it, and I declare you both completely correct and the winner.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, conversations with you are distinctly becoming a waste of time, and I choose to spend it more wisely elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>"Good day to you sir. I said Good Day."DJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140806528823090092006-02-24T13:42:00.000-05:002006-02-24T13:42:00.000-05:00Yuda:You really don't get economics then if you th...Yuda:<BR/><BR/>You really don't get economics then if you think you're subsidizing my ticket purchase. <BR/><BR/>The fact that I have a company, that creates 7 jobs, all of which are tax paying citizens, as well as supply health coverage, transportation, etc, and that we do charity to the community is a net gain for tax payers like you.<BR/><BR/>We generate more for the economy than any view of you "subsidizing" my tickets. Additionally, the government taxes the self-employed -- ME -- at twice the rate it taxes you, so take your high and mighty attitude to some other blog that cares. At this point, you don't hold a lot of weight with me.<BR/><BR/>I happily pay my taxes, employ my team, create jobs, and give to the community, but I'll be damned if someone will call any part of that work a handout.DJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140797690910413442006-02-24T11:14:00.000-05:002006-02-24T11:14:00.000-05:00Yuda:And you are entitlted to your opinion. It sim...Yuda:<BR/><BR/>And you are entitlted to your opinion. It simply differs from mine. The joy of owning my own business is that I don't have to justify my business expenses to you. I have all the documentation needed on how it benefits the company should the only group I have to justify it to comes asking -- the IRS. <BR/><BR/>Since that statement alone will likely not satisfy you, an example of some of the things we do with our tickets is that we service several not-for-profits, and in one case we donate tickets to their fundraising efforts, so that they can use them in a charity auction to raise money for the homeless. This strengthens the relationship between our two organizations, and we do our small part to help out the homeless in DC. <BR/><BR/>Again, you're wrong on a point. As an LLC, I can choose to take a draw, a salary, profit sharing or any other type of compensation I want, particularly since I'm a single member LLC. So, by simply saying "My profits were less", I've answered your question.<BR/><BR/>I would also agree with you that if you are no longer a satisfied customer, then don't buy tickets. However, that is not the argument against buying tickets that I oppose. <BR/><BR/>You're entitled to all of your opinions. I simply object to the 'you're stupid' argument that was used originally, and I object to making assumptions about my situation when you don't know what you're talking about. Just as I don't know you from Adam, you have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about my particular situation. I respect your right to disagree, but come at it from a position of discussion.DJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140733548766428162006-02-23T17:25:00.000-05:002006-02-23T17:25:00.000-05:00Yuda:I thought I would take the moment to tell you...Yuda:<BR/><BR/>I thought I would take the moment to tell you that my business is, in fact, a single member LLC (and structurally the same as a sole proprietorship), so thus business expenses are coming out of my pocket. I could walk away with greater profits, or I could spend my own money. I spent the money.<BR/><BR/>As I mentioned in the comments earlier, I could have left out my financial status and actually made my case stronger, but in the interest of full disclosure I gave all the facts.<BR/><BR/>DaveDJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140627309027405682006-02-22T11:55:00.000-05:002006-02-22T11:55:00.000-05:00My partners and I cancelled our 40-game 4 seat pac...My partners and I cancelled our 40-game 4 seat package. We were upper deck, and we couldn't get additional partners to allow us to buy lower deck, or get the Nats to sell us a 40-game package for the lower deck. (Implicitly, this makes the case for a new stadium, you need a configuration that allows more good seats.) It was tough to utilize the seats for mid-week games vs. also-rans. This year, we'll buy individual seats for games we cherry-pick and re-evaluate for 2007. BTW, far as I can tell, only 81-game plan holders will get any preference for seating in the new stadium. 20- and 40-game holders will only get preference for playoff sets (ha!). We will be maintaining our level of O's ticket buying, however: 2005=0, 2006=0. I'm forecasting a similar level for 2007, as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140040845982959942006-02-15T17:00:00.000-05:002006-02-15T17:00:00.000-05:00I think 'withholding' your support has an on field...I think 'withholding' your support has an on field impact as well. I think most players would say they play better in front of a vocal crowd that supports them. Some of the best in game moments are the situations where the crowd comes to life and you can feel the energy in the stadium. That energy is hard to generate in a three-quarters empty stadium. It's also not going to come from the lobbyists sitting behind home plate who don't know the score.<BR/><BR/>I can't quantify how many of the 81 wins from last year were helped by an enthusistic crowd but I'm sure the crowd effect was a much bigger factor than in 2004 when they played to an empty house.<BR/><BR/>I'm not advocating that fans have a responsibility to buy season ticket packages to help cheer the team, but when fans who already made the choice to buy tickets abandon the stadium they affect the players and their fellow brethren much sooner than when they affect the front office.<BR/><BR/>Those that abandon their tickets also free up seats to be purchased by fans of the opposing team. There's nothing worse than the visiting team getting more noise than the home team.Watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15613066721261858360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140032885613364792006-02-15T14:48:00.000-05:002006-02-15T14:48:00.000-05:00Carl:I do feel your pain -- I have to manage 81 ga...Carl:<BR/><BR/>I do feel your pain -- I have to manage 81 games. For last year, of our 81 games, I managed to account for all but 5 games. But it is work, and I found that the best way to do it is well in advance. I'm already assigning and allocating tickets for the summer. And of that argument, I would agree completely. If the actual cost of the tickets is the barrier to entry -- (The "I can't afford it" stance) -- then it's wise not to renew.<BR/><BR/>And "wary", I do agree with you -- the product does need to have value, and it's up to each fan to decide the value. I just don't personally believe that 'withholding' has the kind of impact many fans want.<BR/><BR/>DaveDJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140030423974960262006-02-15T14:07:00.000-05:002006-02-15T14:07:00.000-05:00So here's the business end of this. I renewed one...So here's the business end of this. I renewed one of my two full-seasons, despite the 30% price increase.<BR/><BR/>First off, there is the basic premise that before we didn't have baseball at all. Well, actually, that's incorrect, since NoVa still doesn't have major league baseball. It does have single-A baseball. And a summer college woodbat league. And a major league team 40 miles up the road. Though I'll agree that it is a cash-sucking machine that must be fed.<BR/><BR/>What we really want from the Nats is quality product. There are two ways to get this - one is by withholding participation from the worst customer service operation in professional sports. If they continue to get paid there is little incentive to improve (some would call this the Cubs scenario). Another is to blindly continue paying, hoping that the operation will improve.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, the ownership is going to be stuck with whatever mess they are handed. Would ownership prefer a full house all the time? Of course, since in that economic model prices can be increased. That same model indicates that not renewing season tickets is also an incentive to new ownership - because it gives them an opportunity to oil the machine that returns money on the investment. Everything does boil down to dollars - and I choose to withhold some of mine. If the team continues to be the worst operation in professional sports, then I'll choose to not renew my other full season next year. <BR/><BR/>The team needs to fulfill its side of the unwritten contract between seller and buyer - it has to have a product with value. Last year I was willing to overpay heavily, since the product was new (to these parts). This year that newness is gone. The product's value has declined (particularly since prices were raised). So I'm buying less. If things continue this year as they did last year, then next year I'm buying less.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140027630601985862006-02-15T13:20:00.000-05:002006-02-15T13:20:00.000-05:00Yuda:1. Sure, none of us do, but we've all seen sa...Yuda:<BR/><BR/>1. Sure, none of us do, but we've all seen samples of their work. Much dumber than this on their smartest day.<BR/><BR/>2. I don't think anyone (other than DCN@B) is advocating mindlessly supporting the team. But if renewing your tickets is mindless support, canceling them is impotent obstructionism. <BR/><BR/>Reasonable people can disagree, but seeing as how we're not in a position to talk about good baseball versus bad baseball yet, we have to settle for baseball versus no baseball.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03967066946860270813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140024270313497652006-02-15T12:24:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:24:00.000-05:00Yes, I actually am pretty optimistic about attenda...Yes, I actually am pretty optimistic about attendance. Based on the crowds last year, there seemed to be a lot of corporate outings. (My sense of things). Business is much better this year in DC than last, and so I think we'll see growth in this area. It's good for business, good for employee moral, etc. Despite my flame-o-gram, I'm generally the optimist at NTP. (I just can only take so much whining. :) )DJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140023871686654882006-02-15T12:17:00.001-05:002006-02-15T12:17:00.001-05:00Maybe a fully loaded gun to take care of the TV El...Maybe a fully loaded gun to take care of the TV Elvis style...Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140023827395266742006-02-15T12:17:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:17:00.000-05:00Basil, Dave thinks it would be tolerable if you wa...Basil, Dave thinks it would be tolerable if you watched it fully-loaded, I think it would be tolerable if you watched it with the sound off. That's about the extent of the disagreement. :-)Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03967066946860270813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140023724282099332006-02-15T12:15:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:15:00.000-05:00Basil:Yup, pre-coked-up Lohan. See, I have this ...Basil:<BR/><BR/>Yup, pre-coked-up Lohan. See, I have this theory that Herbie: Fully Loaded would be highly entertaining if one was... .Fully Loaded. So I proposed getting just plastered -- like disgustingly drunk -- and watching the flick. Nate and Watson were just not up for it.<BR/><BR/>I will point out that I also made them watch Dukes of Hazzard, and we were all highly amused. We were made dumber for the experience, but we were amused.<BR/><BR/>DaveDJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140023671615984452006-02-15T12:14:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:14:00.000-05:00You're pretty optimistic on the attendance. I'm c...You're pretty optimistic on the attendance. I'm curious to see whether the mid-season spike was a product of winning and excitement, or whether it was just the natural ebb and flow of seasonal attendance. Probably a combo of both. I'm not counting on another 10-game winning streak this year!Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140023607887432402006-02-15T12:13:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:13:00.000-05:00Chris:Agreed, anecdote is dangerous. :) The NTP s...Chris:<BR/><BR/>Agreed, anecdote is dangerous. :) The NTP seats are section 313, right behind home plate. (Note I'm not complaining!). We were denied on our request to move, but admittedly, we're already in the center. We're just 13 rows back, and while the views of the TVs are great and we're under cover, it makes seeing pop-ups less than ideal. But, we'll be in the same place for another year.<BR/><BR/>We're likely to see a drop in the percentages of season ticket renewals, but I actually think we'll end up seeing some good attendance numbers at the end of the season. Not much growth, but I do think we'll see it stay level. That's not bad for year two. We'll see a spike with the first year at the new stadium, and then have a new set of numbers to play with.<BR/><BR/>I think you're right -- and the business folks are setting it up to be a middle market franchise. Not necessarily a bad move, and it does make ownership plan for distance rather than quick bucks.DJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140022900885432782006-02-15T12:01:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:01:00.000-05:00I've heard (and assessing things by anecdote is al...I've heard (and assessing things by anecdote is always dangerous!) that it was fairly easy to move around the 300s, especially from the fringes to the center.<BR/><BR/>Prime seats are always going to be in demand, and I would imagine that there's going to be little turnover in those from year to year, especially in this city where connections/prestige, etc are just as important as, well, actually getting things done. I'd suspect that you'd have a hard time getting into the equivilent of the 100s and 200s at Camden Yards, too.<BR/><BR/>Ordinarily, teams season tickets seem to fluctuate quite a bit. Pittsburgh, for example, has seen their tickets swell, just because people want a crack at All-star game tickets. Those sorts of incentives are quite powerful, and I think that the new stadium is serving as the carrot in this case, too.<BR/><BR/>As far as MASN, I imagine that Reinsdorf was especially pleased at that. Given the high price of the franchise, and the ceiling on media revenue, there's no way this franchise could be run as anything but a middle market franchise. They (Reinsdorft, Selig, Angelos, etc) didn't want another Steinbrenner here.Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140022712190032852006-02-15T11:58:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:58:00.000-05:00Yuda, given the sheer amount of time you've spent ...Yuda, given the sheer amount of time you've spent over at <I>Baseball Toaster</I> and <I>BPG</I>, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this is one of the <I>ten</I> dumbest things you've read all year. You and Dave obviously disagree, which is fine, Dave and I disagree regularly, mostly about the merits of <I>Herbie Fully-Loaded</I>, but you can't dismiss his point with an ad hominem attack. <BR/><BR/>Fans witholding their money at this stage of the game isn't going to impact player personnel decisions, ownership decisions, the quality of the on-field product, or the on-going stadium debacle. What it will impact is the perceived economic viability of the franchise. As a fan of the game of professional baseball in DC, the micro-economic arguments do come into play.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03967066946860270813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140022552385979412006-02-15T11:55:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:55:00.000-05:00Chris:Hey, differing opinions are more fun. Nate...Chris:<BR/><BR/>Hey, differing opinions are more fun. Nate chooses literature, I chose to shoot something across the bow.<BR/><BR/>I will go on record, which both Watson and Nate know, in saying this statement -- I bought my season tickets because I really enjoy going to games. I just love being there. It was less a matter of 'how good is the team'. It was 'how much do I enjoy the experience'. I freely admit that it's a better move for me to make it a business investment, and per my experience with my tickets last year, it was a great marketing tool and helped my business. We did a lot with those tickets that were good for the business. But is it the best way to invest my marketing dollars? That's debatable. :) But I love going to the stadium, and since I'm the boss, I get to make decisions like that. <BR/><BR/>You're right about the structure of their revenues -- it's not quite the way it should be, and I think there is something to be said about the wackiness of the MASN deal. As I've said to Nate, any owner of the Nats is really looking at a long term investment to get this under control -- it's going to take a while for this to really turn out to be a good business, because of the high price of the team and the concessions made to Angelos to get the team in place. The revenue model is going to be odd for a while.<BR/><BR/>I think you're probably right about the renewal estimates -- but I think that the full season holders are going to come in similar to last year. My personal experience tells me there isn't much wiggle room -- I tried to move the NTP seats just a few rows up, and was shot down due to the renewal levels. That tells me that at least in the lower deck, businesses ponyed up and renewed. I wonder what the comparison is on other teams -- do you normally have a lot of churn in the partial season ticket holders and upper deck seats? <BR/><BR/>DaveDJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140021920840796712006-02-15T11:45:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:45:00.000-05:00And yes, of course I'm taking it too far. Reality ...<I>And yes, of course I'm taking it too far. Reality is always in the middle. Particularly with online discussion like this, sometimes you want to make the statement a little bolder to make the point that there are other opinions out there.</I><BR/><BR/>Certainly.... And you get us yokels riled up. ;)<BR/><BR/>I think the Nats were projected to get ~$60 million in ticket revenue last year, and I think MASN paid around $20. They are unusually dependent on ticket revenue compared to some other teams in their market size.<BR/><BR/>Another thought.... It seems like they're coming in below their renewal estimates, which is probably mostly from partial season ticket holders and upper deck sitters. If that's the case, I wonder how much of that was because of the increase, which PR-wise wasn't going to go over well considering the off-field circus. I had guessed last year that they'd be way down this year bc a lot of people bought tickets just for the opening game. I wonder if they've done enough research to be able to break out why they're below their targets.Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140021249110916562006-02-15T11:34:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:34:00.000-05:00Chris:I'm not sure -- it's hard to say when we'll ...Chris:<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure -- it's hard to say when we'll get the owners. You're likely right that the ASB is when we'll see it. I think we'll have the announcement sooner, actually, with transition around ASB. I don't think it will make much difference this actual calendar year in terms of the team we see on field -- I think baseball operations will be where the changes happen.<BR/><BR/>No, the criticism isn't discouraging at all. *grin* There are lots of elements of 'fun intellectual excercise' in this.<BR/><BR/>You're absolutely right in that I'm making broad generalizations -- it makes more entertaining reading. And yes, of course I'm taking it too far. Reality is always in the middle. Particularly with online discussion like this, sometimes you want to make the statement a little bolder to make the point that there are other opinions out there.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, we don't owe MLB sh!t. There really is a base transaction -- if we want to see pro-baseball, we pay them money. It's not really more complicated than that. If they want us to buy tickets, they need to put something that we feel is entertaining. Notably, despite the chaos, they have sucked in a number of people in DC who are interested enough in just debating the details to be interested -- so from a business perspective, they ARE doing their part. You may not like it, but you're fascinated by it. "Are you entertained?" Apparently enough to watch.<BR/><BR/>DaveDJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140020455952277792006-02-15T11:20:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:20:00.000-05:00I can't see us getting new owners before the ASB, ...I can't see us getting new owners before the ASB, at the earliest. It'd be interesting to see how they do divide those in-season things.<BR/><BR/>I hope the criticism you're seeing isn't discouraging you -- I suspect it's not! :) Contrasting opinions are important, and while you think there's a lot of groupthink, I think a closer reading (which isn't always possible, I know) shows that there's a wider diversity of opinion than you'd suspect.<BR/><BR/>One of the things you'd doing though, is making a generalization and ascribing it to Nats Blogs. Essentially, what you seem to be arguing against is the 'MLB Owes Me' attitude. You're right to point out where that is wrong, especially from a (MLB's side) business aspect. But it does seem like you're also taking it too far, as if we owe MLB something. It's that owner-based sense of entitlement which I'm (and presumably) others are objecting to. It's not that we disagree that business considerations are important. It's that we disagree that we should place 'the good of the business' on our radar for reasons to make our decisions.Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140020318107778862006-02-15T11:18:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:18:00.000-05:00Yuda:Of course not -- you're paying for product. ...Yuda:<BR/><BR/>Of course not -- you're paying for product. If you don't want baseball, don't pay for it. It's fundamentally that simple. But don't delude yourself into thinking that MLB is in it for the love of the game. You might be, but they aren't. Either buy baseball, or don't.<BR/><BR/>As for MLB holding back with no good reason -- I'm not sure how correct a statement that is. You have two crazy entities - MLB and the DC City Council. I'm not sure that MLB holding back as a bargaining position is crazy. I don't think I would do it if I was MLB, but I'm not going to sit here and say they had no reason.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure I agree with you either about the long-term damage -- meaning, how long term. Will these moves be felt in 2, 3, or 4 years? I'm not sure. <BR/><BR/>And finally, I just won't acknowledge the attack on me personally -- you don't know me, and you have no idea.<BR/><BR/>DaveDJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140019729636389852006-02-15T11:08:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:08:00.000-05:00Basil:There is a middle ground, I agree -- I try t...Basil:<BR/><BR/>There is a middle ground, I agree -- I try to be one to look for it. As I discussed with Nate when I was kicking this around, what bothers me as well is there is an element of 'group think' sometimes to the Natosphere, and I don't tend to share all the same opinions. I decided to take this issue from the other angle, and see what came of it. <BR/><BR/>DaveDJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140019393468931132006-02-15T11:03:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:03:00.000-05:00Chris:I actually believe that the investment today...Chris:<BR/><BR/>I actually believe that the investment today is good for a better tomorrow. Investments this year in season tickets go on the P&L of this year, and I do believe that we'll have ownership this year. Thus, I believe it will end up being part of the new ownership's business, not right to MLB. They get their profits in the sale.<BR/><BR/>From purely numerical sense, yes -- you could just walk up and buy tickets. But there is something to be said about the way the sales process works, and season ticket holders are better for the franchise than walk ups, in terms of ability to market to them.<BR/><BR/>I don't mean to say that I think Bowden should get a free pass -- I'm just saying that the kind of deals he can pursue are unique across all the MLB franchises. He has a strange 'asterick' on everything he does, and thus he can't quite be compared to every other GM equally. Thus, he can't get a free pass, and he can't be equally compared to all other GMs, and I think that gets overlooked in discussions.DJDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745199045050332380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14311253.post-1140017865455810662006-02-15T10:37:00.000-05:002006-02-15T10:37:00.000-05:00The Natosphere is really hard on Bowden, Tavares, ...<I>The Natosphere is really hard on Bowden, Tavares, etc, about the lack of long term planning -- but don't ever acknowledge that they really aren't in a position to do long term planning. Bowden is trying not to make a long term mess for the new owners, so long term moves are counter to what he's doing.</I><BR/><BR/>That's certainly true to an extent. But Bowden notably made a long-term offer to AJ Burnett, for example. While it's true that he doesn't want to saddle the franchise (nor would MLB allow him), it's a bit innaccurate to say that he doesn't have a budget, and because there aren't real owners that we can't criticize him because he's doing the best we can. Not to turn this into a discussion on player evaluation, but the franchise would likely have more wins (and accordingly more excitement/fans/revenue) if they had kept Wilkerson, and used the extra money for a pitcher such as Jeff Weaver. Your argument here is a bit too much like giving him a free pass. I don't recall anyone in the Natosphere whining that he didn't sign BJ Ryan. We're (and making generalizations about a group of people is typically a stretch) a sensible lot, and we usually do take these sorts of things under considerations. I don't think anyone was asking for a FA bonanza or long term deals.Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.com